TERRY GROSS, HOST:
That is FRESH AIR. I am Terry Gross. Immediately we pay tribute to Burt Bacharach. He died final Wednesday at age 94. His title grew to become synonymous with the craft of songwriting at its most elegant and imperiled, wrote music critic Francis Davis in The Atlantic. Full disclosure – Francis is my husband. Bacharach, alongside together with his longtime collaborator, lyricist Hal David, wrote many hits within the ’60s and early ’70s, together with “Make It Straightforward On Your self,” “I Simply Do not Know What To Do With Myself,” “Solely Love Can Break A Coronary heart,” “Do not Make Me Over,” “Anybody Who Had A Coronary heart,” “Wishin’ And Hopin'” and “At all times One thing There To Remind Me.” Here is some extra Bacharach and David songs.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “PROMISES, PROMISES”)
DIONNE WARWICK: (Singing) Guarantees, guarantees. I am all by way of with guarantees, guarantees now. I do not understand how I bought the nerve to stroll out. If I ought to, keep in mind…
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “RAINDROPS KEEP FALLIN’ ON MY HEAD”)
B J THOMAS: (Singing) Raindrops preserve falling on my head. And identical to the man whose toes are too huge for his mattress, nothing appears to suit. These raindrops are falling on my head.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “YOU’LL NEVER GET TO HEAVEN (IF YOU BREAK MY HEART)”)
THE STYLISTICS: (Singing) So keep in mind. Should you’re unfaithful, angels up in heaven are taking a look at you. You will by no means get to heaven when you break my coronary heart. So be very cautious to not make us half. You will not get to heaven…
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “WHAT THE WORLD NEEDS NOW IS LOVE”)
JACKIE DESHANNON: (Singing) What the world wants now’s love, candy love. It is the one factor that there is simply too little of.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “WHAT’S NEW PUSSYCAT?”)
TOM JONES: (Singing) What’s new, pussycat? Whoa. What’s new, pussycat? Whoa. Pussycat, pussycat, I’ve bought flowers and plenty of hours to spend with you. So go and powder your cute little pussycat nostril.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “I’LL NEVER FALL IN LOVE AGAIN”)
WARWICK: (Singing) What do you get while you fall in love? A man with a pin to burst your bubble. Oh, that is what you get for all your troubles. I will by no means fall in love once more.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “THE LOOK OF LOVE”)
DUSTY SPRINGFIELD: (Singing) The look of affection is in your eyes, a glance your smile cannot disguise.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “ALFIE”)
WARWICK: (Singing) What’s all of it about, Alfie? Is it only for the second we dwell? What’s all of it about while you type it out, Alfie? Are we meant to take greater than we give, or are we meant to be type? And if solely fools are type, Alfie, then I suppose…
GROSS: In that medley, we heard Dionne Warwick, B.J. Thomas, The Stylistics, Jackie DeShannon, Tom Jones, Dusty Springfield and extra Dionne Warwick. All these songs are written with lyricist Hal David. Bacharach was additionally identified for his preparations and his signature use of trumpet to intensify his syncopations and shifting time signatures. We’ll hear to 2 of my interviews with Bacharach. We’ll begin with the one I recorded in 2010 with Bacharach and Hal David, when their musical “Guarantees, Guarantees” was revived on Broadway. Neil Simon wrote the e book for the present, adapting it from the Billy Wilder film “The Condo.” The revival starred Sean Hayes and Kristin Chenoweth.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
GROSS: Burt Bacharach, Hal David, welcome to FRESH AIR. You already know, it is such an honor to speak with you collectively. I used to be at all times hoping for an opportunity this may occur, and I am grateful that it has. Let’s speak about a number of the songs you wrote for the present. Let’s begin with the title track “Guarantees, Guarantees,” which Jerry Orbach sang within the unique manufacturing. So let’s begin by listening to his efficiency of “Guarantees, Guarantees.”
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “PROMISES, PROMISES”)
JERRY ORBACH: (Singing) Guarantees, guarantees. I am all by way of with guarantees, guarantees now. I do not understand how I bought the nerve to stroll out. If I shout, keep in mind. I be happy. Now I can take a look at myself and be proud. I am laughing out loud. Oh, guarantees, guarantees. That is the place these guarantees, guarantees finish. I will not fake that what was mistaken might be proper. Each night time, I will sleep now. No extra lies. Issues that I promised myself fell aside. However I discovered my coronary heart. Oh, guarantees, their type of guarantees take all the enjoyment from life. Oh, guarantees, these type of guarantees can simply destroy your life. Oh, guarantees, guarantees. My type of guarantees can result in pleasure and hope and love – sure, love.
GROSS: That is Jerry Orbach within the unique solid recording of “Guarantees, Guarantees.”
BURT BACHARACH: Jerry Orbach – he was fantastic within the present. I imply, however I keep in mind with Jerry Orbach coming into New York after I got here into New York, and we might come to see the present perhaps after he’d been taking part in three months, and I would go backstage and see the solid, and Jerry Orbach would say to me, man, if I’ve to sing this track once more yet one more – you already know, as a result of it is – granted, it’s a very note-y (ph) – in different phrases, it isn’t a simple track to sing. My motivation was the urgency that makes it work dramatically, otherwise you suppose it will work dramatically by the anger that comes by way of in that many notes and that many phrases. However Jerry, after three months of claiming, why’d it’s important to make it so troublesome, night time after night time? He is up there doing “Guarantees, Guarantees.”
GROSS: So, Burt Bacharach, you mentioned, it is so note-y as a result of it has to indicate anger. Nicely, the devices, the orchestra is type of, like, churning behind (laughter) the singer. And it is identical to – there’s such a type of hyperactive vitality occurring there. And the time signature retains altering.
BACHARACH: You are proper.
GROSS: It modifications, like, 20 instances in the course of the track.
BACHARACH: Excellent.
GROSS: So it is simply type of, like, frenetic sounding and disorienting in a method. It is fantastic. Did you consciously say, while you sat down to jot down the track, it wants 20 totally different time signature modifications?
BACHARACH: Oh, no. I’ve by no means accomplished something, like, deliberately. Once I write it out, I notice, hey; that is – you have to change time signature on this bar, time signature on this bar. So it isn’t deliberate. I imply, that is the principle factor. It could drive musicians loopy, you already know, till they cease counting and simply hear and really feel the music. I believe it is type of egocentric on my half. I simply write it. So so far as your remark concerning the churning within the orchestra, yeah, a lot of what I’ve written, whether or not it is from the present or at any time when, it is nearly like they arrive out of the identical mattress, you already know? It isn’t simply piano and voice. It is like the place the drums might be taking part in, the place the strings are available. They’re made and created about the identical time because the track is being written.
GROSS: So that you hear that each one in your head as you are writing the track. You hear the percussion. You hear the trumpet.
BACHARACH: Yeah. Yeah.
GROSS: OK. Nicely, that leads me to the ultimate model I wish to play of “Guarantees, Guarantees.” And that is the one which was the actually huge hit, Dionne Warwick’s model. Do you know at first that you’d ask her to do that track? She had already had hits with a few of your songs.
BACHARACH: Nicely, she was a unprecedented vocalist and an amazing car for what we’d write. And the extra that we’d write for Dionne, the extra we’d see the place we may go along with her, the challenges that we may do.
HAL DAVID: Dionne is a good musician…
BACHARACH: Yeah.
DAVID: …And has an amazing really feel for the songs we wrote.
BACHARACH: And in addition, how, you already know, by having that type of mobility – I imply, you are taking a track like “Guarantees, Guarantees” – in someone else’s arms, it may sound perhaps labored or underneath duress being sung. Dionne simply type of floated by way of it, like, effortlessly. And that was one of many issues that she had…
GROSS: She’s unimaginable.
BACHARACH: …The convenience.
GROSS: Let’s hear her recording of “Guarantees, Guarantees.”
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “PROMISES, PROMISES”)
WARWICK: (Singing) Guarantees, guarantees. I am all by way of with guarantees, guarantees now. I do not how I bought the nerve to stroll out. If I shout, keep in mind I be happy. Now I can take a look at myself and be proud. I am laughing out loud. Oh, guarantees, guarantees. That is the place these guarantees, guarantees finish. I do not fake that what was mistaken might be proper. Each night time, I will sleep now. No extra lies. Issues that I promised myself fell aside. However I discovered my coronary heart. Oh, guarantees, their type of guarantees can simply destroy a life. Oh, guarantees, these type of…
GROSS: One of many issues I like…
BACHARACH: Yeah.
GROSS: …About that recording – it is so vivid. And I simply love all of the orchestral issues occurring within the background. And, like, is it kettledrum or timpani that you just’re utilizing in…
BACHARACH: Timp, yeah.
GROSS: Timpani.
BACHARACH: Yeah, orchestra bells. Yeah.
GROSS: Oh, I simply love listening to all of that. In order that’s all in your thoughts as you are writing the track.
BACHARACH: Yeah, nearly.
GROSS: And I believe it is really extra vivid on the Dionne Warwick recording than within the Broadway solid recording.
BACHARACH: Nicely, it is also slower. That stunned me.
DAVID: Yeah.
GROSS: It’s, yeah. Uh-huh.
BACHARACH: Whenever you began to play it, I mentioned, wow.
DAVID: Yeah.
BACHARACH: Wow. I should have taken a sluggish capsule or one thing earlier than we recorded that. However I believe – additionally, I used to be considering most likely how we had been considering, like, commercially…
DAVID: Yeah, it will…
BACHARACH: …What can be – the simpler one to understand can be perhaps a bit extra sluggish, measured tempo.
DAVID: Nicely, no matter it was, it’s sluggish, no query about it. However she is clean, and but she’s bought all of the music and all of the traces within the songs. She’s actually telling it to us.
BACHARACH: Yeah.
GROSS: Let’s speak concerning the different actually huge hit from the present, “I will By no means Fall In Love Once more.” There’s an amazing story behind the track. So whichever one in all you desires to begin telling it, go forward.
DAVID: Nicely, when Burt was hospitalized with pneumonia…
BACHARACH: It was, like, perhaps three days after we opened. It wasn’t too…
DAVID: Yeah.
BACHARACH: And we had good opinions in Boston (ph).
DAVID: Yeah.
BACHARACH: We thought we had a success.
DAVID: Yeah, we thought we had a success. However there was one spot within the present – we had a track referred to as “Would not That Be A Stroke Of Luck?” or one thing just like that.
BACHARACH: Yeah.
DAVID: And…
BACHARACH: That is an excellent title, Hal.
DAVID: Yeah. However we threw it out. That track did not work. Everyone appreciated the track, however the viewers did not just like the track. And whereas Burt was within the hospital, I began writing lyrics to that track. You already know, the well-known traces – what do you get while you kiss a woman? You get sufficient germs to catch pneumonia. After you do, she’ll by no means telephone you. I do not recall considering that Burt was within the hospital and had pneumonia, however clearly, it was some unconscious factor about it as a result of that is what I wrote.
GROSS: OK, so now we have to listen to the track now. So that is “I will By no means Fall In Love Once more,” aka the pneumonia track. And why do not we hear Dionne Warwick sing it?
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “I’LL NEVER FALL IN LOVE AGAIN”)
WARWICK: (Singing) What do you get while you fall in love? A man with a pin to burst your bubble. That is what you get for all of your bother. I will by no means fall in love once more. I will by no means fall in love once more. What do you get while you kiss a man? You get sufficient germs to catch pneumonia. After you do, he’ll by no means telephone you. I will by no means fall in love once more. Do not you already know that I will by no means fall in love once more? Do not inform me what it is all about.
GROSS: We’re remembering composer Burt Bacharach, who died final Wednesday on the age of 94. We’ll hear extra of my 2010 interview with Bacharach and his songwriting associate, the late lyricist Hal David, after a break. That is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF MCCOY TYNER TRIO’S “(THERE’S) ALWAYS SOMETHING THERE TO REMIND ME”)
GROSS: That is FRESH AIR. We’re remembering composer Burt Bacharach, who died final Wednesday. Let’s get again to my 2010 interview with Bacharach and his longtime lyricist, Hal David.
So how did you get a way that you need to collaborate with one another? I imply, what do you know about one another’s work? What attracted you to one another musically?
BACHARACH: Nicely, Hal had been doing it longer than me and type of efficiently. He had hits. And, you already know, it was an attention-grabbing time within the Brill Constructing, the well-known Brill Constructing. There have been seven flooring of music publishers…
DAVID: Publishers.
BACHARACH: …The place you can go and play a track for one writer. After which he mentioned, I do not prefer it. And then you definately go down the corridor and play it for an additional. After which, as I mentioned, was a really attention-grabbing time.
GROSS: You have each – you wrote so many hits collectively. At what level did you break up? And why did you cease writing collectively?
BACHARACH: Nicely, it is a lengthy story.
DAVID: Yeah.
BACHARACH: I believe we get entangled with a movement image that most likely by no means ought to have been made. Making a movement image, a film musical with new songs, it isn’t like you possibly can go to Boston and check out it out. The movie is shot. And the concept which you could substitute a track and reshoot the scene and the sequence – the image was referred to as “Misplaced Horizon.” And it introduced its personal set of issues. And I have to say that I wrote the rating, the background rating, in addition to writing the songs with Hal. Songs sounded good. I imply, they nonetheless sound good to me.
DAVID: Yeah. The rating, I believe, is an excellent piece of labor. However the film simply did not work.
GROSS: So the movie was unhealthy. The songs had been good. How did that break up your relationship?
BACHARACH: I did not wish to write anymore, interval. And…
GROSS: Actually? It was – you had been that discouraged from that film?
BACHARACH: Hear; I drove as much as the opening night time theater having simply learn the LA Occasions evaluation. And I simply needed to get out of city. I needed to go right down to Del Mar – I had a bit seashore home there – and conceal, you already know, and never write and simply play tennis day-after-day. And although my legal professional informed me, hey; you already know, you are going to get in bother together with your dedication with Hal to jot down for Dionne. She’s occurring Warner Brothers now. New label, new album is predicted to return out. And I simply ignored his recommendation – very unhealthy. So you already know, so far as accountability and blame, it is all on me, you already know?
DAVID: Nicely, no matter it was, we have been associates ever since.
BACHARACH: Yeah. It was simply – you already know, I am very completely happy to personal that up, Hal, you already know? We must always’ve simply – once more, ought to’ve, may’ve – sat down and simply mentioned, let’s wrote some new stuff for Dionne’s album. However hey, man. I did not wish to write with anyone, you or anyone.
GROSS: Hal David, did you wish to surrender songwriting after the film bought such unhealthy opinions and also you realized how unhealthy it was?
DAVID: No. I may perceive why somebody would. However no, I did not. I saved writing.
GROSS: So I believed we may shut with one other track. And this can be a track that you just wrote – that you just did not write for “Guarantees, Guarantees,” nevertheless it’s been interpolated into the brand new manufacturing. And the track is “I Say A Little Prayer.” And I believed we might use Aretha Franklin’s 1968 recording of it.
DAVID: Nice file.
GROSS: Yeah. Had been you amazed to listen to her file this?
BACHARACH: It is a greater file than the file we made.
DAVID: We did, yeah. I imply, we – and we did an amazing file, however she topped it.
BACHARACH: Oh, yeah.
GROSS: Why is that this one higher?
DAVID: You will hear (laughter).
BACHARACH: It is extra pure.
DAVID: Yeah.
BACHARACH: It is simply extra pure. We’re speaking about bar modifications, time on the refrain. Eternally, ceaselessly, you will keep in my coronary heart. And I’ll – you already know, that is going 4/4, 3/4, 4/4, 3/4. Then regard the best way it was handled by Aretha, as a result of Aretha simply makes it seamless, the transition, going from one change to a different change. You by no means discover it.
GROSS: OK. It has been actually an honor to talk with you each. Thanks a lot for doing this.
BACHARACH: Hey – good speaking to you.
DAVID: Good to speak to you.
BACHARACH: Thanks.
GROSS: I recorded that interview with songwriters Burt Bacharach and Hal David in 2010. Bacharach died final week. He was 94. Hal David died in 2012 on the age of 91. Developing, an interview I recorded with Bacharach and Elvis Costello. They started collaborating on songs within the ’90s. I am Terry Gross, and that is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “I SAY A LITTLE PRAYER”)
ARETHA FRANKLIN: (Singing) The second I get up, earlier than I placed on my make-up, make-up, I say a bit prayer for you. And whereas combing my hair now and questioning what costume to put on now, put on now, I say a bit prayer for you. Eternally, ceaselessly, and ever, ever, you’ll keep in my coronary heart. And I’ll love you ceaselessly, ceaselessly, and ever, ever. We by no means will half. Oh, how I like you. Collectively, togethеr, collectively, togethеr, that is the way it have to be. To dwell with out you’d solely imply heartbreak for me. Ooh. I run for the bus, expensive. Nicely, whereas using, I consider us, expensive – us, expensive. I say a bit prayer for you. And at work, I simply take time – and all by way of my espresso breaktime, breaktime, I say a bit prayer for you. Eternally, ceaselessly, and ever, ever, you’ll keep in my coronary heart. And I’ll love you ceaselessly, ceaselessly, and ever, ever. We by no means will half. Oh, how I like you. Collectively, togethеr, collectively, togethеr, that is the way it have to be. To dwell with out you’d solely imply heartbreak for me. No one however me. Eternally, ever, and ever, ever, you’ll keep in my coronary heart. And I’ll love you ceaselessly, ceaselessly, and ever, ever. We by no means will half.
(SOUNDBITE OF MCCOY TYNER TRIO’S “YOU’LL NEVER GET TO HEAVEN (IF YOU BREAK MY HEART)”)
GROSS: That is FRESH AIR. I’m Terry Gross. We’re remembering songwriter and arranger Burt Bacharach. He died final Wednesday. He was 94. Together with his longtime songwriting associate, lyricist Hal David, Bacharach wrote many pop hits of the ’60s and early ’70s together with “The Look Of Love,” “Stroll On By,” “Anybody Who Had A Coronary heart,” “Do not Make Me Over,” “I Say A Little Prayer” and “Alfie.”
In 1998, 12 years sooner than my interview with Bacharach and Hal David, I spoke with Bacharach and Elvis Costello, who had begun collaborating collectively. The 2 would have been unlikely collaborators within the ’70s, when Bacharach was well-known for his harmonically and rhythmically advanced, extremely orchestrated pop songs and newcomer Elvis Costello was performing unpolished, high-energy pub rock. This unlikely duo was shaped once they had been requested to co-write a track for the movie “Grace Of My Coronary heart.” They continued to jot down songs collectively.
Subsequent month, a group of their songs might be launched on a field set referred to as “The Songs Of Bacharach & Costello.” Once I spoke with them in 1998, they’d simply launched an album of their songs referred to as “Painted From Reminiscence,” that includes Costello singing with Bacharach conducting the orchestra and taking part in piano.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
GROSS: Elvis Costello, what have you ever discovered from working with Burt Bacharach concerning the building of songs, about harmonics and meter and all of that?
ELVIS COSTELLO: Nicely, I – clearly, you may have totally different inclinations about concord. And in addition, I imply, I’ve at all times been intrigued by Burt’s use of uneven meter. And I am unable to say I’ve imitated it, however I discovered myself doing it. I believe when you’re not a very schooled musician, you would possibly do it in a really pure method. And I believe the rationale that these odd bars every so often in Burt’s compositions work so successfully is as a result of they’re by no means accomplished with self-consciousness. They’re accomplished to boost the naturalistic method by which individuals specific themselves. I believe it mirrors the best way we converse or the best way we expect in uneven phrases. We do not suppose all precisely in 4/4. And due to this fact – you already know, we confide, after which, we instantly blurt one thing out. Nicely, I believe that that is the place the eagerness lies in his compositions.
BACHARACH: I’ve tried to by no means do it…
COSTELLO: Yeah.
BACHARACH: …For a factoid, simply to be totally different.
COSTELLO: It is by no means – by no means appears for a truth, you already know?
BACHARACH: I imply, generally I get a bit bit perplexed when I attempt to write it down and instantly notice, oh, my God, it is a 7/8 bar, you already know? I imply…
COSTELLO: Nevertheless it feels pure. Once we carry out “Anybody Who Had A Coronary heart,” I by no means suppose…
BACHARACH: Yeah.
COSTELLO: …Twice about…
BACHARACH: Proper.
COSTELLO: …What it’s. I imply, we have been performing a few of Burt’s songs that include – and there are some elements of them in – “My Thief” has a bar of 5/4…
BACHARACH: Proper.
COSTELLO: …Within the first verse, in every – you already know, in every of the opening verse. And it by no means – it would not appear unnatural, you already know?
BACHARACH: Nicely, we wish to not solely make it really feel pure for you, the consolation stage as songwriters, but additionally that listening viewers on the market that is not going to see that as a pimple going by, that 5/4 bar.
COSTELLO: Yeah, not going to throw all of them one other foot in there. You already know, it isn’t as if we’re making dance data, however there needs to be…
BACHARACH: We’re not…
(LAUGHTER)
BACHARACH: We’re not? Now you inform me, Elvis.
COSTELLO: Oh, no.
BACHARACH: You mentioned, come on, we will – after “God Give Me Energy,” they’re going to all be, like, dancing.
GROSS: Nicely, you already know, after I, like, for example, take heed to “Guarantees, Guarantees,” I by no means thought to myself, gee, what a tough set of signature – time signature modifications, however – and the sheet music. Should you take a look at the sheet music – the road, guarantees, these type of guarantees take all the enjoyment from life – there’s one bar of three/4 adopted by a bar of 4/4 adopted by a bar of 6/4, then 3/4…
BACHARACH: Excellent.
GROSS: …4/4 then 6/4. After which, guarantees, guarantees, my type of guarantees, that is 3/4, 3/8 after which 4/8. I imply, who even sees 3/8 in sheet music? So Burt Bacharach, these type of shifts simply come into your thoughts and then you definately write them down and that is while you notice how tough they’re?
BACHARACH: Nicely, I believe that was pushed – yeah, that definitely was pushed by the depth of what that needed to say theatrically, on stage, in “Guarantees.”
GROSS: Proper, ‘trigger that was written for the present “Guarantees, Guarantees.”
BACHARACH: Proper. So it needed to have a drive of its personal. And, yeah. I heard it, performed it, and began to notate it, write it down. Oh, my goodness. We bought a 3/8 bar, and right here comes one other 3/8 bar ‘trigger it may well’t be a 6/8 bar, placing the 2 3/8s collectively. It is a 3/8. It is a 3/8. It is a 4/8.
And even after I’m doing it, like, with a symphony orchestra now, I attempt to get them to suppose – so as to add one factor – as a substitute of simply counting the three/8, 3/8, 4/8, to listen to what the ladies are singing or hear the musical content material, moderately than studying these eighth notes, and go, (singing) guarantees, guarantees – and one. So proper there, that takes care of your 7/8 bar, you see? (Singing) Guarantees, guarantees – and one (vocalizing). But when they do not sing of their head – I imply, the background voices and the strings are taking part in (vocalizing). See? The women are going (singing) guarantees, guarantees.
And the trumpet gamers have to return in a single beat later. So it will be (singing) guarantees, guarantees (vocalizing). But when they’ll hear of their head (singing) guarantees, guarantees – and one. In the event that they rely that method, it is a breeze. It is easy.
GROSS: So…
COSTELLO: A simple lesson for you. It is easy.
BACHARACH: After all, the symphony orchestra generally would take a look at me with nice dismay and say, what is that this man saying?
COSTELLO: I imply, that is the type of stuff which you could day-after-day work collectively – throws up, you already know? Clearly, we – to return to your query about harmonics or concord, I ought to say, the – I imply, I’ve written an excellent diploma of music down notably after I’ve labored with musicians from the classical and jazz discipline, who’re extra used to the written web page. However in terms of fashionable track, in fact, working in a rock band, you hardly write something down – generally a string overlay of a rhythm part. However the rhythm part elements, the chord progressions are quite simple, and you do not – it will be silly to jot down them down. They’re so – they’re too straightforward to recollect. You’d inhibit your self within the communication.
GROSS: Nicely, Burt Bacharach, what influenced you harmonically? What music had been you listening to that you just suppose shaped your fundamental, you already know, musical, harmonic thoughts?
BACHARACH: I believe after I did get inquisitive about music, it definitely was the French impressionist Ravel, you see, and Rachmaninoff. And instantly, to listen to what was occurring on the planet of jazz, against the world of jazz that I knew earlier than, coming from listening to the Dorsey band or Harry James – and instantly, someone opened this big door, and there was Dizzy Gillespie and Tadd Dameron and Charlie Parker, Thelonious Monk. It is like one other gentle years away.
GROSS: And why do you suppose that moderately than changing into, say, a bop musician or bop composer, arranger, you went into pop as a substitute?
BACHARACH: Oh, I do not suppose I might have ever been a ok jazz pianist, bop pianist. You already know, I used to be influenced by it. However the identical motive I by no means grew to become a severe classical composer beginning with Darius Milhaud and Henry Carroll – it was a studying course of. I appreciated the music, appreciated the music. I at all times felt that if I pursued it, you already know, I would be writing perhaps on a fee from a symphony, that I would hear the work two years later. I would must complement my earnings by – or earn money educating at a college. It is a onerous route, you already know? I like a pleasant place to dwell in. And I wasn’t going to get it that method. I just like the consolation stage a bit too excessive. And the opposite factor is I simply did not wish to do it sufficient.
GROSS: Proper. Proper.
(LAUGHTER)
BACHARACH: So there’ll by no means be – perhaps that is the factor. However there’ll by no means be a remorse coming from me – you see? – the place I will say, oh, God. It – simply been totally different, if I would written that one nice symphony. Nicely, that is off the record. That does not – that is only a fabrication in my thoughts, for me to ever say that.
GROSS: Yeah, yeah.
BACHARACH: I’ve one remorse, that my mom was so dissatisfied as a result of Leopold Stokowski requested me to jot down a bit years in the past, most likely when “Guarantees, Guarantees” was on the market. And I used to be commissioned by the American Symphony. And, you already know, they mentioned, we’ll premiere it in three years. And I used to be used to the gratification, you already know, of write a track, go into the studio, make the file and listen to it on the best way residence, hear it on the best way residence or the subsequent morning while you activate the radio. Three years.
COSTELLO: That is a very long time, is not it?
BACHARACH: Very long time. And I took a cross. And I used to be high quality taking a cross on it. However…
COSTELLO: However she was dissatisfied.
BACHARACH: My mom was very dissatisfied.
GROSS: We’re listening to the interview I recorded in 1998 with Burt Bacharach and Elvis Costello. We’ll hear extra after a break. That is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF MCCOY TYNER TRIO’S “ONE LESS BELL TO ANSWER”)
GROSS: That is FRESH AIR. Let’s get again to my interview with Burt Bacharach and Elvis Costello. Once we recorded this in 1998, they’d simply launched an album of songs they co-wrote referred to as “Painted From Reminiscence.”
Let me play “God Give Me Energy,” which was the track that you just first collaborated on for the film “Grace Of My Coronary heart.” And it is the final monitor in your new CD, “Painted From Reminiscence.” Do you wish to say something about writing the track earlier than we hear it?
COSTELLO: If anyone’s seen “Grace Of My Coronary heart,” I imply, it follows the story of a songwriter who goes by way of all types of tribulations romantically. And the place this track seems within the story, it needed to fulfill a sure position. So that truly helped us, I believe, in getting our collaboration began. It bought us previous the – you already know, we’d have mentioned, proper, we’re bought to jot down all songs about pomegranates or one thing, you already know? I imply, we may’ve taken an summary concept, you already know? As an alternative of which, we had a really, very particular framework.
And as soon as we might created that track, notably after we recorded it six months later for the top titles, initially only for the top titles, I believe it was inevitable that we’d write extra songs collectively. It simply felt too good. And the expertise of recording collectively felt too good. And I hope you possibly can hear that within the file. It is – the file begins so gently. It is the quietest file I would ever made as much as that time. However suppose the place it finally ends up. It additionally has one of many largest crescendos of any file I’ve appeared on.
GROSS: Proper.
COSTELLO: And never a file that is available in, you already know, and offers you every little thing about it within the first 4 to eight bars, however one thing that basically develops. After which to be within the studio singing with the rhythm part, after which to listen to the orchestration added to that, is totally a thrill, you already know? It is nonetheless a thrill after I hear it.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “GOD GIVE ME STRENGTH”)
COSTELLO: (Singing) Now I’ve nothing, so God, give me power ‘trigger I am weak in her wake. And if I am sturdy, I would nonetheless break. And I haven’t got something to share that I will not throw away into the air. That track is sung out. This bell is rung out. She was the sunshine that I would bless. She took my final likelihood of happiness. So God, give me power. God, give me power.
GROSS: That is “God Give Me Energy,” initially written for the film “Grace Of My Coronary heart,” now featured on Elvis Costello and Burt Bacharach’s CD “Painted From Reminiscence.”
“God Give Me Energy” opens with a beautiful flugelhorn line. And Burt Bacharach, I imply, your preparations are stuffed with flugelhorns and trumpets. I imply, there’s so many songs of yours the place that is simply – I’ve come to consider it as a signature. I used to be questioning when you ever performed trumpet or, you already know, why you hear trumpets in so a lot of your songs?
BACHARACH: It is a very expressive instrument, you already know, for a singular – it is one of many few devices after I may, say, make an announcement to arrange on an intro or a determine. It speaks extra vocal than, like, a flute would have or clarinet. Or a saxophone is a bit little bit of one other image. However I used to jot down dummy lyrics on flugelhorn elements, simply on introduction issues, simply so that they weren’t simply notes. So the flugelhorn participant would be capable of see the word, sing the word, although it made no sense. It was a lyric, nevertheless it made no sense. Nevertheless it simply had the correct sound vocally, vowel smart, for that proper word. Trumpet gamers, within the unique instances once we had been recording it, until they bought to know me, thought I used to be nuts (laughter). However there’s something about it, you already know? Simply say, sing it.
GROSS: So, Burt Bacharach, I wish to get again to the concept that you usually have a dummy lyric in your head while you’re writing a melody and even while you’re simply writing an instrumental line within the association. Are you able to give me an instance of a track that you just wrote a dummy lyric for simply on the trumpet line?
BACHARACH: Say I had a determine that went (vocalizing), OK? And there was the trumpet that is going to play then. Now, moderately than simply notate it that method, I would write one thing – I am very huge with placing a maintain on. I like that expression. It simply type of suits numerous totally different figurations. So that would have simply been, (singing) maintain on, and I will be there. Now, you see; within the arms of an excellent flugelhorn participant, you get that. He’ll perceive that. He’ll perceive that higher as a result of he’ll to know it isn’t how lengthy you maintain a word as a result of it is notated. A dotted eighth word – positive, that is the way it will most likely converse. However he perceive when you sang it simply the place you launch that word.
GROSS: I wish to play one other file right here, and I believed that we might play the Elvis Costello model of the Burt Bacharach-Hal David track “I Simply Do not Know What To Do With Myself.”
COSTELLO: Oh, my God.
GROSS: And this can be a nice track, and there is nice recordings of it. Elvis, your – I like your model of it. After which there’s, in fact, the Dusty Springfield model, which is a traditional. And on the brand new Rhino field set, it additionally options the unique model of the track by by Tommy Hunt. So earlier than we hear all three variations, Burt Bacharach, would you inform us about writing the track?
BACHARACH: Within the Brill Constructing days, the place Hal and I might work day-after-day, we had an entire roster of Scepter artists that had been doubtlessly artists to file. And I suppose that was going to be both for Chuck Jackson or for Tommy Hunt. And I went and wrote the orchestration and made the file with Tommy. And that was the preliminary file. I appreciated the file. I appreciated the best way he sang, too. So, you already know, each different file afterwards is a distinct file in a method than what the unique was. I imply, they is perhaps higher, however, you already know, the unique usually comes proper out of the mattress with me.
GROSS: Nicely, proper now why do not we hear “I Simply Do not Know What To Do With Myself”? And first, we’ll hear Tommy Hunt, then Dusty Springfield, then Elvis Costello.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “I JUST DON’T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH MYSELF”)
TOMMY HUNT: (Singing) I simply do not know what to do with myself. I do not know simply what to do with myself. I am so used to doing every little thing with you, planning every little thing for 2. And now that we’re by way of, I simply do not know what…
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “I JUST DON’T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH MYSELF”)
SPRINGFIELD: (Singing) I simply do not know what to do with my time. I am so lonesome for you. It is a crime. Going to a film solely makes me unhappy. Events make me really feel as unhealthy. Once I’m not with you, I simply do not know what to do. Like a summer season rose wants the solar and rain, I want your candy like to beat all of the ache. I simply do not know what to do…
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “I JUST DON’T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH MYSELF”)
COSTELLO: (Singing) I simply do not know what to do with myself. I simply do not know what to do with myself. Child, in case your new love ever turns you down, come again. I might be round, simply ready for you. I do not know what else to do, do not know what else to do, do not know what else to do. I am nonetheless so loopy for you, oh, oh, oh.
GROSS: That was three variations of the Burt Bacharach-Hal David track “I Simply Do not Know What To Do With Myself,” sung by Tommy Hunt, Dusty Springfield and Elvis Costello. We’ll hear extra of my 1998 interview with Burt Bacharach and Elvis Costello after a break. That is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF BURT BACHARACH AND ELVIS COSTELLO SONG, “THIS HOUSE IS EMPTY NOW”)
GROSS: That is FRESH AIR. We’re remembering composer and arranger Burt Bacharach. Let’s get again to my 1998 interview with Bacharach and Elvis Costello after they launched an album of songs they co-wrote referred to as “Painted From Reminiscence.”
It appears to me your careers began in actually reverse locations. Elvis Costello, you began in pubs in England. And, Burt Bacharach, you began being music director for individuals like Vic Damone and the Ames Brothers, Joel Gray, then Marlene Dietrich. And also you had been in, like, the large nightclubs.
BACHARACH: Yeah, however I used to be in bars, too, first.
GROSS: Had been you?
BACHARACH: I had a job taking part in in New York Metropolis and up in Cape Playhouse restaurant, bought fired. Wow, that damage?
GROSS: Why’d you get fired?
BACHARACH: As a result of they did not like the best way – perhaps I did not have a sufficiently big repertory to know all of the Rodgers and Hart songs and Vernon Duke songs. I do not know why I bought fired. It actually damage. I believed I performed properly sufficient. I could not come residence. I used to be in highschool or one thing up within the Cape. So I took a lesser job in a lesser membership and bought lobster each Tuesday night time and little or no cash and did not get fired.
GROSS: However, Burt Bacharach, I am questioning what you discovered from watching Marlene Dietrich carry out, what you discovered about what songs went over with an viewers and the way individuals put songs throughout to an viewers that helped you later in your profession as a composer.
BACHARACH: I do not know that I discovered issues about, like, what songs had been – I did perceive the theater of all of it with Marlene, how she drove for each element till it was excellent. I imply, we’d go into the Olympia theater in Paris, rehearse an orchestra for eight days. You already know, this orchestra is over-rehearsed by the second day. What’d you do with an orchestra to maintain them going for eight days? However to do the track goes (singing) see what the boys – time and again. By the sixth day…
GROSS: (Laughter).
BACHARACH: So that you simply needed to preserve…
COSTELLO: Notably, a Parisian orchestra. I guess that was actual enjoyable.
BACHARACH: Yeah, that was good, actually good.
GROSS: (Laughter).
BACHARACH: And in Russia, too – I imply, if simply – she’d stand in entrance of a light-weight and be lit and name the instructions standing inflexible there for, like, 4 hours, 5 hours till she bought it precisely the best way she needed.
GROSS: What was it like for you while you began writing for rhythm and blues acts and rock ‘n’ roll performers after working, you already know, for older performers and for older audiences in golf equipment? – you already know, as a result of while you began writing – I imply, you already know, individuals like The Shirelles, you already know, The Drifters, Jerry Butler. I imply, that is such an actual distance.
BACHARACH: Nicely, on a regular basis I used to be actually conducting, whether or not it is Vic Damone or the Ames Brothers, I used to be at all times considering, I bought to attempt to write some songs. That is what I ought to perhaps – actually perhaps do. And so I used to be nonetheless writing songs. I used to be writing songs after I was conducting for Dietrich. I would be someplace in Warsaw, and The Shirelles file was sitting in No. 4 within the nation or one thing. And it will make – when you actually checked out it and appeared on the type of materials I used to be doing with Dietrich and the type of musical stuff that was coming on the market and listening to Jerry Butler doing “Make It Straightforward On Your self” on the similar time or Chuck Jackson, it made no sense in any respect. It was like 360-degree flip from (singing) go see what the boys…
GROSS: (Laughter).
BACHARACH: …To (singing) I simply do not know what to do – you already know?
COSTELLO: There’s one thing in there, although, someplace, is not there? Something out of the entire – we have talked about this earlier than and I do not know – I would not put you on the spot, however, I imply, I would say there’s bits of “Anybody Who Had A Coronary heart” and “What’s New Pussycat?,” you already know? “What’s New Pussycat?” might be – may come proper out of…
(CROSSTALK)
BACHARACH: Certain.
COSTELLO: Yeah. All of it comes on the market someplace alongside the road, perhaps a few years later, you already know?
BACHARACH: It is potential. I simply keep in mind taking part in the Olympia as soon as with Dietrich and Quincy Jones coming backstage, you already know. And I used to be having hits, and Quincy was my pal and got here backstage. He mentioned, what are you doing, man? What are you doing? I mentioned, properly, hear, Q. She’s nice. I get to see the world. She trusts me. It is a problem for me conducting this orchestra, making her sound pretty much as good as I could make her sound. It is about music.
GROSS: Nicely, I wish to thanks each a lot for speaking with us. It is actually been nice enjoyable. Thanks very, very a lot.
COSTELLO: Thanks very a lot.
BACHARACH: Thanks for having us.
GROSS: Burt Bacharach and Elvis Costello recorded in 1998 after they launched an album of songs they co-wrote referred to as “Painted From Reminiscence.” They continued to jot down songs collectively. A set of their songs might be launched March 3 referred to as “The Songs Of Bacharach And Costello.” Burt Bacharach died final week. He was 94. How fortunate we’re to have all of the songs he gave us.
Tomorrow on FRESH AIR, our visitors might be movie and TV costume designer Ruth E. Carter. She received an Oscar for the “Black Panther.” Now she’s nominated for greatest costume designer for the sequel, “Wakanda Eternally.” She did Spike Lee’s early movies “Do The Proper Factor” and “Faculty Daze” and was nominated for an Oscar for his “Malcolm X” and for Spielberg’s “Amistad.” I hope you will be a part of us. I am Terry Gross.
Copyright © 2023 NPR. All rights reserved. Go to our web site phrases of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for additional info.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This textual content is probably not in its last kind and could also be up to date or revised sooner or later. Accuracy and availability might fluctuate. The authoritative file of NPR’s programming is the audio file.
